The Property Perspective
From hidden gems to billion-dollar deals, this is The Property Perspective - where seasoned real estate pros reveal how they spot value others miss, and industry disruptors share the unconventional strategies reshaping real estate.
The Property Perspective
From Retail to Real Estate: Benmont Locker's Journey of Innovation and Resilience
Real estate maverick Benmont Locker takes us on an inspiring journey from the bustling aisles of retail to the fast-paced world of high-stakes property deals. Discover how Ben's fervor for data-driven strategies has revolutionized his approach in a traditionally gut-feel industry. We traverse the pivotal moments that shaped his career, from retail expansion across nine states to his transformative role as a Chief Growth Officer in the competitive 2025 market. Ben's candid reflection on sidestepping professions like dentistry and sales underscores the importance of aligning personal passions with professional ambitions.
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00:00 - Hope (Announcement)
Success in real estate comes down to mastering acquisitions and closing deals, especially in 2025's competitive market. Benmont Locker has helped scale operations to 400 plus transactions annually, systematizing sales and growth strategies that deliver results. In this episode, he breaks down the biggest lessons from retail, consulting and high-volume real estate, and how to shortcut your way to success From hidden gems to billion-dollar deals. This is the Property Perspective, where seasoned real estate pros reveal how they spot value others miss and industry disruptors share the unconventional strategies reshaping real estate. Now here are your hosts.
00:39 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Welcome everyone. My name is Preston Zeller. I'm the Chief Growth Officer at Batch Service. I'm here with Benmont Locker today. And, ben Mott, I'd love for you to just go into an intro of who you are for the audience. I always find it best for our guests to kind of tell other people what they do here. And yeah, we'll get into it.
00:59 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Awesome.
00:59
First off, thanks for having me on the show today, super excited to chop it up for a little bit and just kind of share some stories and play story time of what mistakes we've all made and prevent that for anybody else.
01:12
So thank you for that. First and foremost, and interestingly enough, chief Growth Officer is not a super common title and you and I both shared that title in our current ventures, which is awesome. Both shared that title in our current ventures, which is awesome, and I think that'll kind of be a little bit of a theme for what we talk about today and my background from I always just describe it right Like and I embrace it like a nerdy entrepreneur that does things from a database decision-making aspect, rather than your traditional visionary entrepreneur. So as we kind of get into that, that's a great segue and in my introduction is across multiple industries, navigated and made it into the real estate industry in the last five to six years full time. But leading up to that and prior to that, I kind of was in multiple different facets and always carried that growth mindset from an operational perspective or a number two role and really embrace that in my journey.
02:10 - Preston Zeller (Host)
So that's cool and love your title as well, my man, awesome, yeah, and you are right, it's kind of an obscure title and it's funny when you go tell people that they're like, okay, this is made up. Yeah, what do you? So what do you? What would you say you do here? Um, but, um, cool, well, um, let's, let's rewind it back. I mean, you know you mentioned you're in real estate today, um, and I know you're involved in in different ventures, um, but let's wind back the clock to really wherever kind of um makes sense for you. And just, you know I love to delve into your earlier part of your career even your life if you want, and just to talk about, like, what some of those formidable moments that really kind of you know, started you off.
03:01 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, and I think, like most people right, that story is um, you know what cultivates where you are today and then if anybody who's out there listening today resonates with anything, it's like you know choose differently, do differently. Shorten the runway um to get to where you want to go. So I grew up in Gettysburg, small town, central Pennsylvania. Most of you learned about it in history class or took a field trip there. I sped through the battlefields on my way to work every day and didn't appreciate it as much as everyone should. So I would love to go back and visit sometime. But I got out of high school, actually, and didn't really know what my true passion or pursuit was, and was it the dentist? One day I was like oh, this seems like an easy job, man. These guys like come in and check my teeth and then they bail. They make a lot of money. So I went off to temple, wanted to play soccer and explored pre-med for dentistry. Um, and fast forward a year. Not a quitter, like I say, I'm a quitter, but I made it through a year of school and I was just like man, this is just not like the environment for me, um, the pace, the, the time commitment in which I was operating at the constraints, um, and just so. Much of my day was filled with things I didn't love doing, where I was like man. I need to. I need to get out of this Um. So right again in true lesson learned. It's like I still didn't know what I wanted to do, but I learned what I didn't want to do, um.
04:22
So I came back home, you know, there at an early age, and my dad was a traditional 10 99 sales guy, worked in the ski and outdoor industry and I was like man, maybe I'll do what this guy does. Um never had a sales gig. I don't really think that I like sales. To this day, 20 years later, I still don't like sales. And he gave me like every crappy territory in upstate New York in like New York state. So it was like I mean, I was out in the middle of nowhere, cool places, cool scenery, but like horrific territory, not great customers in a role that I didn't love. So quickly realized that sales wasn't my gig also. So I consolidate a lot of life lessons in about 24 months of college and sales and was like all right, now we have like this intentional, let's figure out what we kind of do want to do aspect of things like what are the pieces of my day that I like and that I don't like, and started crafting from there.
05:12 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, I love that you said that too. Because about early on the dentistry, because yeah, I think you know my like you know, 22nd story there was I will actually I went to film school in Southern California and similar thing, where it was like I got into that industry and but I fell in love with actually just films, filmmaking, storytelling. That was the piece I kind of took with me, but I think so many people were. You know, I think our generation two is very you know, I don't know. We got jaded pretty quickly on college and what that meant for us, because you're like, wait a second, this doesn't like a, there's no guarantees B. This doesn't really define me in the way that like I thought it might. I don't, you know something like that. But so then you're OK. So you're, what were you selling again in New York?
06:07 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, literally ski apparel, like hard goods and soft goods. So, yep, ski outdoor mountaineering equipment, depending where it was, and, um, yeah, I enjoyed it. I snowboarded. I've worked at our local ski resort. It was a junior instructor. Love that piece. But again, like that's, keep your hobby separate than your career.
06:28 - Preston Zeller (Host)
It is a good way to preserve those things. So like they didn't correlate at all. Yeah, you know it's funny. I don't think most people realize how like big New York state is, either, like cause you just think of Manhattan or maybe a little bit outside of that, but I know, like most of New York, I think it's pretty rural, isn't it?
06:41 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Oh man, I mean you talk about a five hour drive up through Saranac in the mountains to get to the St Lawrence Seaway up on the Canadian border, and I mean the quickest place to drive is on the frozen river. That's 14 inches of ice and that's how people commute once they get up there. So it's, it's cold, cold and far, um, like I said, um, but yeah, it's very, very, very, very rural. Uh, most of that area. Cell phone service back in the day wasn't great. So man was, that was uh for a you know, a youngster was roughing it out there with no communication, busting out old maps, traveling around really dating myself there, did you?
07:17 - Preston Zeller (Host)
use a Thomas guide. No, did not, okay.
07:20 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Okay, so it was just regular maps, not, it was maybe post Thomas guide yeah, that was like Quest days where I could like, if I was organized enough before I rolled out, printed 17 pages of directions and didn't lose track of where I was.
07:32 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, Right, right, yeah, I remember that thing brought you to dead ends like a lot too, or like thought a road was pushed through. So okay, so you're like I'm going to get out of this dentistry thing, give the traveling sales guy thing a shot. What from there? Yeah, where'd it go?
08:02 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, so kind of a cool story that hopefully hasn't embellished over time to have any falsehoods in it. But you know, being in the ski and outdoor industry, there was a trade show in Vegas that we would always go to. It was once a year a big industry trade show and at the same time was also the SHOT Show, which was like the same equivalent for the firearms and hunting industry and one of the biggest trade shows I think in the US largest in the world for that industry. Actually, just looked the other day, a ridiculous amount of people I think 60,000 people at the time were going through it. So pretty significant Vendors from all over the world, really cool stuff.
08:38
So was kind of still tagging along trying to figure out what I was doing with my dad at this trade show. Went out to dinner with him one night and we were sitting there and literally bar napkin did idea. We were like hey, man shot shows over there. Him and I both like the, the outdoor industry. We, you know, we had a farm in Gettysburg that we deer hunted on and such um something we did with my grandfather. So kind of three generations of enjoying the outdoors and we're like let's go over there, you know, let's stop selling other people's stuff. Let's see if we can buy some closeouts, um, write some off, off-price goods and we'll sell them. Right, we're already in all of these stores in the summer, right? A ski shop generally is like a hiking and outdoor shop. It's really like okay, cool.
09:11
So I literally designed business cards the next day, rolled over to a Kinko's, made up a name of something that like wasn't legit, right, and for $60, we had this idea and we strolled in there 60 bucks, we had this idea and we strolled in there. I wasn't even 21 at the time. I think with Vegas you get away with whatever you want. So I was like I stole a beer the night before. It was like living my best life, just started a business, right, things were getting ready to boom for me and my future.
09:35
Um, and we roll into this trade show and we pitched this idea to these people and we came up quickly. My dad's a great sales guy and they were like well, what do you guys do? And we're like, well, we're so different from everybody else and we quickly identified a cool void in the industry where everyone would go in. They would have budgets and money set aside for their buy for the season and we would say, hey, we want to buy one of these seven, all of this stuff, and all of these manufacturers built goods, imported them and would end up with excess inventory. And what we found was excess inventory was like, as soon as a manufacturer built something and brought it in and shipped all of their orders, like they quickly wanted that off their books.
10:12
So we found that we could be trailing right behind like days to weeks behind current trends and we would go into them and say, hey, we don't want to buy any of your current inventory, we don't want to fight with everybody else, we only want to buy your discounted inventory that you want to get rid of. And I said, we said we're the redneck TJ Maxx. And they were like, oh, that's kind of cool. And they're like, well, like you don't have to waste your time and your sales pitch on us, like I'm not buying the new stuff, I don't care, they manufacture on right forecast. We were like, we want to know what you have today. What can ship. So we spent like 200 grand at this show buying random stuff and tractor trailers. The next week show up backing up our 400 foot driveway at our farm, no loading dock, no a horse barn. And here I am unloading stuff and I was like, oh my God, like what did we do? So?
11:04 - Hope (Announcement)
we were in the game.
11:04 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
We were in the off price. We were the redneck TJ Maxx of the industry and that kicked off like what would have been the next couple of years of building out that venture in a startup family business from a bar napkin. And what year is this about? This was probably 2008-ish, yeah, somewhere in that vicinity.
11:24 - Preston Zeller (Host)
OK. So yeah, interesting time to start doing that too, right?
11:29 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was funny though, as you mentioned, that, right, all of these things I like real estate ties that I would have done differently or like kind of happened for best luck. But when, when things crash, people come back to their roots of like less expensive things to do. So, you know, when real estate crashed, when the economy crashes, like people go camping, people go outside and throw a fishing lure that doesn't cost money at an amusement park, um, and I think that actually was a little bit of this platform for our success. So, without taking up too much time at that, we thought that we were going to right, I was young, I was like, dad, we'll get into e-com. And it's like, right, I've listed a bunch of products, build out God knows what that site looks like right today. And nothing happened, right, and he was like, dude, like you said, we're going to buy the stuff and sell it. Listen, man, I don't know. Like, maybe the idea was better than not. So now we have tons of inventory horse barn full of stuff didn't sell. We were like, hey, let's open a retail store. The good area, central Pennsylvania, um, I think the most hunting licenses in the country are sold in Pennsylvania and fishing is not far behind, so very, very popular area. So we open up 2000 square foot retail store. Um response was phenomenal, um.
12:42
However, we quickly outgrew that model and then we were like, all right, we should do another one. So we opened another bigger store. That was 6,000 square feet, which seemed like the craziest thing ever. It was 25 minutes away. We opened that again better area, better customers, a lot of transient traffic off the interstate and people were like, oh, this is awesome, you should do it here, here and here. And then, right, like us, we're like, yeah, of course, we've already been doing this for three months, like we might as well keep going. So we kind of got our stuff organized. We at that point invested into a formal warehouse. The model was kind of proving itself and then over the next 24 months we opened um 19 stores in nine States. So we were almost chugging at a store a month in these grand openings, and figured out and was refining this format out.
13:27
I opened. Every single one of them traveled around like a circus clown a couple of buddies of mine and we were like roadies at the time of just setting up stores, grand opening on to the next. But it was cool. It was a lot of hard labor work. We didn't leverage or delegate anything out. It was like we drove the box trucks right to write to every state and we were there and we set it up and put together the fixtures. It was just us. But there's one way to learn the ins and outs of the business right Is to start at the bottom and work your way through it.
13:55 - Preston Zeller (Host)
So that is one really cool because I think in a very literal I mean, like you said. I mean the original intent of starting an e-com store always sounds wonderful and goodness. You know drop shipping stores and all that. I mean Shopify has become huge based on that premise and other ones like that. But you really like just, you know, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like, you're like put in the sheer man hours like you know, literal sweat equity to make this thing work. That, like you said, was an idea on a napkin and I think one key takeaway. This is a recurring theme, of course, on this show and I think in life that sometimes it just takes you to go and figure it out along the way and actually I think probably most of the time you know it's like you're just, you're not going to have all of the weird, you know dicey things sorted out prior to going down a venture. Like you just, you got to take action, right yeah?
15:05 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
100 percent. You know and I like will bounce around a little bit any time I talk about this to reflect on how I appreciate and or have awareness of that now, and I have a mentor and a coach that always says it's like he calls it. You know, to build and then sell is BS Right, he calls it the BS model and he's like just get started and especially for somebody like me, we're like I want perfection, I am very objective. So it's like I got to build a performer, I got to build a model, I got to build the systems. I'm more worried about the logos and the brand book than selling anything. And luckily my dad was there at that point to encourage me because it was like, hey, it was.
15:41
If you have inventory and you own it right Again, fast forward a house, a wholesale or whatever, the best thing you can do is own inventory right. You can fix and flip it, you can wholesale it, you can rent it, you can do whatever. The best thing is to acquire the inventory. So it was like one was get out of your own way, start the damn project, then acquire the inventory. That's your ammo, you've got the upper hand. Once you can control the inventory into real estate. It was kind of the same way where it was like failure to launch is often just our own, you know, mental barrier, where we come up with reasons and there's principles and physics and psychology and everything that supports that. That just says, like we think of every possible worst case outcome. Where you take that visionary, that emotional person, they're like, oh man, if we just work hard enough, you push through them and did those days suck? Yeah, like you know, we nobody slept and um, right, we stayed in crappy hotels and yeah, I drove 50 000 miles in a year in a box truck. It was a manual and didn't want to be anywhere in Chicago making it through. Like right, you don't plan any of the stuff? Um, did anybody die? Like no, um, you know it was life challenging for two years. But you know, at the end of that journey we sold after uh, only about three years from inception, to a PE group, which was cool.
17:00
I was in my early twenties at that point in time. And, um, somebody came in and bought that out. Um, my dad kind of peeled off and went down and lived on a lake and bought a bass boat and did that, and I was in my early 20s and was like, oh, that was supposed to be my future. But like, all right, we'll figure this out. And I quickly transitioned and then for me it was just kind of the momentum to keep challenging myself at that point in time. And I showed up there day one, absolutely no idea what to expect. I signed on a deal for a year to stay with them. I was my dad's right-hand man, really and I was standing in a room.
17:37
The people were really good at digital marketing and internet advertising at the time and they really saw belief in this e-com thing. Right, three years later and 10 to $12 million in revenue, and they're like, okay, cool, like yeah, we can get behind this and we're good at it. And I got again this, this visionary guy, um, and the first day I was there I'll never forget very emotional character, highly successful dude, um, you know, appreciate everything he's done, but he was like yelling almost at this development team and my lead developer is a guy with Asperger's and I got a bunch of coders and they're like melting down in this, like concrete data center of 20 employees that I'm in charge of, and I was like holy moly. I was like hey, josh, like, let's, do you talk to me and then I will translate to them from here on out. And like, right, ten years later now, as we learn, right, integrators and CEOs and all of this stuff made its way into the real estate industry. And you know, I just came from that role with my dad. I stepped immediately into that role and I was like, hey, I kind of have a knack for operationalizing and taking these ideas and scaling them and we went on to build out that e-com phase of that business, which was cool.
18:45
And then over that time I cultivated some relationships and moved on into some different industries after that you know which was neat and we started just I started just reapplying those principles where it was just like, all right, let's take ideation, let's systematize it, let's come up with right, the objective approach let me make sure I'm not in my own way to push this project forward navigated into, you know, health and wellness, you know supplements and things of that nature. My buddy was at the time was actually starting a drink company, so helped launch and build that out, which was cool. Then I ping-ponged around, did some consulting for a couple of years and started to miss a little bit of the team collaboration. I was doing a lot of stuff on my own and stumbled into the real estate industry shortly after that, which was pretty cool. Um, I had a friend of mine who was doing some flips and building like 170, some unit, multifamily, and, um, you know, I jumped and interjected myself right into the middle of that.
19:41
Then they were trying to scale and, um, you know, build a, they build a, bought a big greenhouse business and they were trying to like, put a point of sale system and build that out and irrigation systems. And also they were like, hey, man, like any of these captivate your interest. And I was like, okay, I guess we could do mums and multifamily and all at once. And, you know, got some good exposure there. And that's when I kind of fell in love with real estate. I was like, okay, this is pretty cool. Like I like the commodity, you know I like the environment and that's my gateway into the game.
20:10 - Preston Zeller (Host)
So that's it. That's awesome. I have a slew of questions I'm curious out of that whole. Well, one were you? Were you guys just approached out of the blue for this chain of stores you had?
20:23 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
You know, we started positioning to franchise the stores and do, like rev share deals and everybody was like, hey, you should open one here. And you know, one day I was like, right after two years, was like, hey, like you should open one here. And you know, one day I was like, right after two years, I was like, man, you should open it. Like, and I'm like, oh, we can do that. And I was like, oh, okay, I guess maybe.
20:42
So we positioned and started going that way, um, and then we were self-funded man, excuse me. And we just bootstrapped it and it wasn't extravagant. We had nothing nice right, like at the time. I mean, it was just, there was no frills and everything was on a. You know, we always look at it Nice to have need to haves and it's like, even right, like the, the, the, the nice to haves are the things that make life easy and when you don't have those like, you only can do the things you need. And we lived that model for a minute and they said, hey, like, what would this do if you guys really wanted to grow this thing? And where you at um with that? So we weren't really on the market. We, we always entertained that idea so we had. It was so funny that model like Tj Maxx is um. No one goes there and spends less money, they just buy more stuff. It's so true.
21:26
My wife knows that very well yeah, exactly right, and that's, if you don't believe me, right, like amazon might be cheaper, but like, just spend more because you buy more because of the convenience aspect. So you know a lot of our clients were high, you know net worth, or you know entrepreneurial people who love the outdoors and spend a lot of money. They valued a good deal, though. So they would come to our stores and just say, man, like that's cool, like name brands. So they would come to our stores and just say, man, like that's cool, like name brands. Right, we're not selling you secondhand stuff, it was, all you know, very similar models. So we cultivate a lot of really cool relationships and that's where some of that influence came from of people that were interested in in what we were doing were actually customers of ours originally and did, was it like a straight buyout?
22:10
transition, or they let you retain anything, anything, or how did that work? Yeah, so we, we did a straight buyout, I, I did, um, you know, some liquidity like at settlement, and then signed on um, you know, for a year deal after that to see how and where we wanted to kind of take a second slice at the apple of some upside and some growth. And you know, with that again, that's awesome. Right, I mentioned I was in my early twenties and you know, and threw some cash in the bank. It was cool. It was right over six figures in my bank account. I was like, damn, that's a big difference from making $40,000 a year. That was pretty cool.
22:39
But there were a lot of pitfalls.
22:40
Some of the stuff that I got thrown into was I was little fish and way too big of a pond at that point in time when they started shifting things and expenses became black and white no emotion, like.
22:54
I remember they sent a bunch of credit card processing machines those were things back at the day with the contract and the terminal. They sent them to collections and my damn name was on them and I was just like guys, like what is this about? They're like no man, like expense, like we're not paying for, the software is outdated, like, and I was like, but like I literally don't have like the cash to pay off all of these. You know the things were there's like an iPhone that's worth nothing, it's like worth 40 bucks and I owe 2000, and we had it in all the stores and the technology was outdated. Um, so I got punched in the mouth and, like I got a fee that I got to pay up on and I thought it was going to be all glitz and glam and it definitely wasn't. So there was good learning lessons throughout, throughout that thing, all along the way.
23:36 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, it's the, it's like the, the things you're unaware of that can go wrong, Like that's kind of the whole you don't know what you don't know. Um, yeah, those are the, those are the best, sometimes like the hardest learning lessons.
23:49 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, they're unknown unknowns is what those are called, what we plan now today, we say, hey, like this is what we know, what we think is going to happen, here's what we don't know and this is what might happen if that occurs. And I was in unknown, unknown territory that I didn't know those things could even exist or would happen. But now I do. I don't personally guarantee anything like that. I make different decisions if I'm not in control of the asset, the widget, whatever it is. And ever since that day, at you know, 22 years old, I was like, okay, cool, like I'll figure this out, and then lesson learned?
24:19 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah. So I have one last question that I want to. I want to kind of move on to a couple of things you did in between, um, getting into real estate. But, like, what was the biggest thing you learned from your dad that even you know sticks with you to today, from that whole experience of working with him?
24:35 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, that's belief is probably it Overconfident and I respect that in people like almost I almost get embarrassed to be like completely honest when, like I am, I foresee possibly the outcome. It's like he could be one of seven people selling ice cream and he would think his ice cream is the best vanilla that there is, like you know, on the beach and he's just in line trying to skim a customer. But he truly believed that, like, if we just did what we said we were going to do, we would have success in that. And I'm like, but like there's a Walmart over here and a Gander mountain right at the time and all these other stores that we're going to steal our market share. And how, how, why did we deserve it? And right, all along it was just like, dude, just do what you do. And right, like, good service, provide a value. Like when we sat down and said, hey, this would work, you were excited, like, what are you questioning now? And I still battle with that today and I think everyone somewhat fiscally responsible or calculated can or will encounter that.
25:31
But it was like, dude, if you had the idea, you vetted it and you said go with it, just believe in yourself. There's no one stopping you except yourself, and he's always been phenomenal at that. He actually went on and rebuilt the same model in coastal stores with fishing and is back on the market today at a much higher multiplier in EBITDA. And that will be his last take at that thing and he'll hopefully, you know, enjoy his boat. And he lives in Florida now, where I am. But you know, he redid the whole thing again. He said, hey, I don't even care, I will rebuild it. I have a bigger vision, a better one, and he did it more successfully this time.
26:13 - Preston Zeller (Host)
And that's just like that inspires me of anybody that doesn't let limited beliefs get in their way. That's a fantastic observation. It's funny. I know you mentioned you don't like sales, but I think it's such a we're all in sales to some degree, right? I mean, you're obviously selling yourself and that comes back to yourself in the sense of man people who don't believe in just themselves. That starts there, right, yeah, and so okay.
26:39
So you, you kind of learn that you, you like some of this operational side of functioning out of the running, the e-com side. Um, once you guys are bought out, if you, if you can just touch on, like maybe the most pertinent experiences I know you mentioned, like a nutrition brand which I remember that being a thing for a while or it's like it's still a thing, obviously, but, um, where it was kind of in vogue to do these like nutritional startups with moringa or whatever. It was kind of in vogue to do these like nutritional startups with Moringa or whatever it was. But maybe touch on that or the consulting side, what everything would be most helpful.
27:11 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah. So I mean again, I think it was like find it, I started to come into who, that I believe I was right. So I took that influence of like be intentional and believe in yourself. But I think you also have to align that with where your skill set and your unique ability is. So like I just didn't enjoy and get energy from banging on some retail stores doors and trying to sell them something, and nothing against that. There are certain people who thrive in that environment. It wasn't me, you know. I found what I started to enjoy.
27:38
I'm a builder. I love building things, love bringing ideas to life and I love doing it from the operational perspective. So, as you mentioned, you know there's trends and things and, um, we chased a little bit of that, but I started to believe in what I was doing and a lot of opportunities arose from there. Because every person's like unique ability, skillset where you're great at what you do, you have an amazing right alphabet title because you're qualified to have it. You know of CGO for you and it's like there's somebody where that's their kryptonite and their weakness and if you can align those things with people, partners or whatever it looks like, that's the ideal marriage. So once you believe in yourself and you know that there are a lot of people that need whatever you're great at that they aren't, they don't have it. All you have to do is bring those synergies together and the more that you have confidence in that and exposure.
28:29
That's where I found tremendous success and a lot of opportunity.
28:32
Like there were people willing to give up equity deals, startups, right, high consulting fees, whatever, just because of somebody that understood their value proposition and right. I say that in the most humble way. I mean I was only five to seven years experience in the industry at that point. Now I'm 20 and it's like, okay, cool, like I should have some more stripes and earn more opportunities and, um, you know, that's always been top of mind for me. So it was cool and I started to pair together those belief systems of what I'm good at, finding people that appreciated it and valued it. So the price didn't become a concern where they like, if you don't we literally just got off a sales training this morning where it's like if your customer is stuck on prices because you didn't provide a good enough solution. So I was solutions oriented, was confident, knowing what I would do, and only selected things that I knew gave me energy and believed in myself to do and that became like my right flywheel of momentum for career and personal growth.
29:26 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, some fantastic points in there, you know, I think along with that it's funny, I found this, I'm curious, your experience, but you know, the more, the better you get at communicating the value you bring. You find all these opportunities open up and actually found at some point that the challenge more so became what's real and all these people, like you said, people want you to come run. Xyz, I'm willing to give you, you know, the all these shades of things like, did you find that that you kind of had this whole, this sort of different world open up there of now having to sort of vet these opportunities in a way that maybe you didn't before?
30:08 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, and took 10 of them to begin with that weren't good and people took advantage of me because I I again, you know, with that confidence in that belief system, you, the first thing you often discount is your worth, and whether that's your self-worth or your monetary worth, um, so you find yourself in in less than ideal scenarios, and the quicker you can get through that phase, I would almost encourage everybody to overcharge what you're great at and just find the person that needs that, because what you want is respect in all aspects of every relationship, whether it's a W-2 job, whatever it is, there's a big commitment when you're bringing together people, of skills, of personality, of core values, alignment, all of those things. So, yeah, I think the quicker you can learn and really value your time and you as a human, you'll find that you attract better relationships of people that respect that. You know you don't want to have to sell that and convince somebody. Those relationships generally have been the most painful ones for me.
31:06
The deals that take the longest to put together and there's the most red flags that you think, okay, we just have to work through them, end up being the most painful ones and some of the most prosperous and long lasting relationships that I have were like handshake agreements, where year two we formalize an operating agreement just to protect interests, and those have been the great things, and I think you hear that a lot. I think the principle there remains pretty true for everybody to know your worth and attract similar people. Don't get sold for a couple bucks and you know what, though I say that and it's like it might be a good lesson to learn and it might be your launch pad to make some cash to get away from where you are now to there. But I would quickly encourage everybody to get away from where you are now to there. But I would quickly encourage everybody to get to a place where they know what they want to do and what that looks like from a fiscal or enjoyment perspective.
31:53 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, and some of that takes failure. I think you know which I mean. Failure in the sense that like, hey, this thing didn't pan out the way I wanted, but you just, I think, like you said, you took the 10 opportunities and most of those don't pan out the way I wanted. But you're just, I think, like you said, you took the 10 opportunities and most of those don't pan out, and but along the way you go, I now I know I don't really like that thing, you know. So I hear it again. I can file it away, you know whatever. And uh, I'm okay with that.
32:21 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Versus valuable too, right, like once you learn and you say, hey, cool, I know what I don't like, I this style person, um and right, we could go down a really deep path. But you know, in current day, me now, I love like the, the inner work and human psychology aspect of things. And there there's like a reference that my girlfriend actually teaches and it's like um, family, familiar dynamic where you, your body, resists change and you recreate the relationships from your childhood that often reference a relationship with your parents and that stands super true for me. Like I will recreate work environment, toxic relationships that emulate the one that I had with my dad, of him throwing a phone book at me and yelling at me because like, right, I was this kid, I wasn't. Like you deserve six figures a year, whatever, it is Right.
33:06
And once you can kind of break free of that, you'll actually shift your energy and attract a lot different type of a person. So the awareness, as you said, and getting through that and experiencing it, like you say, hey, I don't like this. Then what are you going to do with all the don't likes? Don't keep recreating those environments. Like, do something drastically different at that point in time and your sphere will change, your friends will change and it's like, right, those are the cliche Instagram stories and things you see online. But the reality to that is they just probably shifted a lot of what they were doing, thinking and acting and the results, to no surprise, are different at that point in time.
33:43 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, that's a great observation. No surprise are different at that point in time. Yeah, that's a great observation. So real estate you did all these different things consulting different startup companies. All these opportunities get flown about you. Where did you first start getting into real estate? I know you touched on it earlier and then I think you know why did it appeal to you in a way that maybe all the other things didn't?
34:05 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah. So when I got into real estate, like I said, I joined a consulting position for a buddy of mine who was doing multifamily, some fix and flips and some other business ventures and I love the fix and flip thing and I'll really let my man card down. But I loved watching HGTV and DIY shows at the time Chip and Joanna were cool but like I enjoyed that and again, that's just like embracing what you like. So I was like, okay, that's cool, like I, I watch a lot of things and outside of just leisure, like this is a career path that seemingly is cool. Now, for all of those who share a similar belief system, like fix and flipping is probably one of the most difficult ways to break into the real estate industry.
34:47 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Um, however, especially because those shows, in a way, they're like here's the budget, and then you end up finding out you're like, no, it was twice as much.
34:56 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, they make more money getting paid by the network than they do on the flips. Um, if you have flips that end up being your rentals, you're doing something wrong. That's generally how that goes. You pay, you exchange a lot of hard work for experience. That's pay when you get into fixing flipping for sure, either you acquire a rental or you make no money and you say, yeah, I learned a lot, though We've all been there. But it just resonated with me where I was at At that point in my life I had one rental unintentionally of like a house that I had.
35:25
I point in my life I had one rental in unintentionally of like a house that I had and I was like, okay, I won't sell it, I move those keep. It wasn't a phenomenal landlord, but enjoyed the commodity of it I liked. I think the way that I treat and my relationship with money is like it's like a nest egg for me that's outside of a bank account. That's different, and like I can't go spend it if I, you know, want to go to the casino. And it's like there I think of my kid this one's if I retire, my son, this one's, my daughter this is college, and it's like I started assigning this emotional value to fixed assets that appreciated and created a little bit of cash. So I like that. I like the fix and flipping and the aesthetics of it. And then I liked the tangible, like almost deferred savings that came with each of those and everybody's path there is different, but that's just how I viewed it.
36:11 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah and so okay, you got in through your friend is doing a lot of like multifamily and fix and flip stuff Like how has your sort of role in the real estate industry changed over time?
36:26 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
sort of role in the real estate industry changed over time. Yeah, so this is where I cheated. Then, um, you know I I met and started working with Eric Brewer, who's been in the investing space for 19 years, and came inside of his organization as their chief operations officer. Um, for three years, and I mean you talk about a crash course. You know I plugged into an organization of 30 people. We were doing 250 deals a year and you quickly right like that's just surrounding yourself. So go find who that person is for you, or what network, what community and mastermind, and do that Because I was able to consolidate what would take a long time to gain that tribal knowledge and compress that into a high stress and high tension environment to learn and try to effectively run and scale that organization.
37:08
But that was like a pivotal moment for me was just having that mentor, not only being compensated for doing the work, but just that learning curve was crazy. I mean we were closing 20 some deals a month and it's like almost every day you're closing a deal Like what aspect do you want to learn? What problem don't you see? Um, so that got hyper, compressed into that. I mean we were, we were doing new construction, wholesaling, whole tailing, you know, fixing, flipping turnkey was huge at the time, so we were kicking out 12 rentals a month that were fully renovated and then selling them to investors. So it was like I just fire hosed myself with overloaded information and learned every aspect of the physical and tactical side of real estate then.
37:51 - Preston Zeller (Host)
And did you know all these models before you got there? Yeah, ok, zero.
37:57 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
And, honestly, I asked a lot of questions. My ego lasted, which isn't big. Probably two days before I was in meetings I was like I don't know what a wholetail is like, like what is it? They're like you know, it started and we broke it down and the interesting thing was is we had 30, some employees at the time and like we started with like glossaries of definitions and basics and right, like that was my operational side, where I was like, well, if I don't know, these people might, but the new people might not.
38:22
And it was like, how do we start to build this infrastructure? And Eric had a phenomenal business at the time. But him and I literally sat down and he said, hey, what do you want to do? I said I want to be a part of something that's like big, that we can grow, that has, like right, this foundation. Um, I don't want to come in and maintain a business. I'm not your 2% year over year incremental growth guy. Like, right, where I am right now was probably where you were five to ten years ago. I want to strap this thing to a rocket and let's see where we get.
38:48
So it took a while for us to figure out that relationship and when you bring in change to an organization with vision and leadership and all of those things, that sounds great until revenue struggles because of change. So it was like this delicate relationship where we didn't want to kill each other and I didn't want him to go out of business, all while coming in saying, hey, I think I can help. So it was, you know, high stakes, for a while we had a lot of attrition which sucked, and I'm a people pleaser but we, I learned that a lot of those people weren't going to get us to where I said I was going to take us and you know, they were kind of like the sacred cow people, or longer tenured, decent people, and they just didn't want to be a part of right, this, this big evolution of something, and I was like, dude, we need to, we need to figure it out. So there was a year, year and a half, of a lot of turnover, a lot of change, a lot of implementation of hardware, software as process and all of those things. But ultimately, you know, at the end of that, as I reflect back on it, it was, it was all worth it. And you know we eclipsed 400 and some deals last year so we were able to significantly increase that that basis. We expanded into nine more counties. We serve physically in person over half of the state of Pennsylvania every single day for sellers that need a solution and it's like I'm proud of what that team of 50 people has been able to do and we still do on a day-to-day basis.
40:09
So, um, very rewarding but long road to get there again, it's like there's no hack, you know, and it's like there's no easy button. There's no secret sauce that you can buy or do. And it's like you know we're skimming through this for the sake of time. But you know, that's three years of every day man, 70 hours a week of us just grinding with text messages and phone calls at night, um, to get to where we want it to be. And, um, I think my, my startup style mentality um, hard and difficult was like adversity. It was just natural, like I never plugged myself into somewhere that was well oiled and was like corporate. So it was always just like this sucks and is hard. Okay, here goes another one of these, but I think that's what helped us. We both had that like-minded uh mindset to just drive forward with, with pursuit.
40:53 - Preston Zeller (Host)
yeah, resourcefulness is an underrated skill set, I think still always. Yeah, um, so, okay. So three years you've been at this company. Yep, yeah, okay, cool, so you oversee what they're like. Are you kind of like just the right hand to the CEO, or how does that work?
41:16 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, so that was my role when I was our COO, and then we got to a place where you know inward reflection and where we wanted to grow the business. You know we increased the deal flow pretty significantly. We created right these expansion models and markets and I said, hey, I really like this. I like the big and newness of these things, of us launching into this new area, the hub. And those people and that team right didn't all carry the same characteristics. So like building that inside of the ecosystem, um, and those people in that team right Didn't all carry the same characteristics.
41:46
So like building that inside of the ecosystem, like created chaos for people when they're always like oh, my God he's in there doing this again and he's got in these counties and I was like dude, why don't we just let me go incubate these things externally? Um, I'll get them to viability, you know, make sure the proof of concept's good and then we'll plug it back in to the ecosystem. And that was really the transformation of our relationship where, you know, performance punishment I did good enough to get fired and start all over again was like I'll kind of shift to that chief growth officer role and anything that we want to do. That's new. We have a lot of opportunity presented to us. You know, let's figure out, I'll go build it, sustain it, and then we'll say, hey, should this connect back into what we're doing? How does this benefit the ecosystem?
42:27
Because a big part of that for me was like I over value for myself that, like that, continued growth is what I seek and I often hand that baton off to other people. I need to learn that. That's not for everybody. But I also wanted to provide opportunity outside of what previously existed for those who wanted to do that. So you know, career progression and growth paths, um were super important for me, Um, and that was the way that I saw to do that Like a lead manager, can come into our organization now at whatever pay that is, and earn their way through three tiers.
43:02
They can become a coordinator or a specialist. Then they can go into dispositions or acquisitions, grow all the way through that and if they want to move somewhere and open a market where they're an equitable partner, now that exists and like that's cool to me. Like I got a guy who has kids in high school that are about done and he wants to move somewhere wherever they go to school and he wants to open a market and the fact that that's like an existing opportunity now for us is very cool. So that was a big transformation for me. And that started to shift to like working with people I really enjoyed and doing things I really liked. That was like now I was in right, like that Michael Phelps gold medal talent style day or was like OK, cool, this, this is much lighter than the past three years were. Like it's like no to everybody, the one person that I'm going to dedicate my next six months to, or the one opportunity, and then we're just going to go all out on that, and that's when things you know got really fun.
43:53 - Preston Zeller (Host)
So I got to ask because you just I mean, it sounds like you're you're mirroring this retail experience of then figuring out how to expand it without having to be the guy that goes and opens the new market yourself.
44:07 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Don't do all of the things you know. That's really funny and kudos to you for pointing it out. I can truthfully say I've never looked at it like that. We've often referenced why and how, we've talked about franchise models and what the profit sharing would look like, but I've physically have never reflected back and said, hey, wait a minute, I've been here before what I'm pushing at. I will tell you.
44:30
You know, the defining thing for us now as a team you know, a partnership team on any new venture is the people you know. Even up to a couple years ago and I see this all the time in real estate, like I will say and then justify, I over gave away some equity on a business venture in the last two years and you know what that sucks to some extent on the P and L that I don't get all of that money at the end of the year. However, I value that relationship so tremendously. Now I love the person that's involved there and that guy funded a $2 million commercial building that we're doing now. That's a 79 unit conversion and it was like the 40% or the 20% or whatever it is that I gave up it nothing in comparison to the fact that you know this gentleman wrote you know, $2 million check in the last 90 days to help us get a deal done. So it's like full circle.
45:24
Just proven concept was like just believe in the people, select the right people, don't get hung up on the one instance or the one opportunity. It's like if you want to, you know, go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together mentality. And I've found that didn't resonate for me. And when your bank account's low or you've got bills, or you want to buy a new car or you want to go on vacation, it's like that's a hard pill to swallow but like people will look out for you their, their abilities and capabilities will be super helpful um to you if you invest into those relationships. So now every project is relationship based and it's solely that's the first qualifying deal. Like I don't care about anything else, it's got to be somebody I want to work with. I don't, I don't care about, you know, the paycheck. That's with anybody. That's a standard. I charge a premium regardless of who you are. I just need you to be a good person and we need to align and, you know, be able to do things together.
46:12 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, it's interesting in that I think you find people as you go along in life who are on both sides of the spectrum and I feel like you kind of decide really early on hey, am I going to be the really abrasive person that just loves to just build bridges and then burn them on the way out, or do I want to build like thousands of bridges with open communication and have this amazing network? Because, you know, sometimes you do see the person, person you're like how is that person still there? But it's just like they're so good at conning people to come around them and then, like you realize you go okay, that person is really successful, but nobody really knows them that well, why is that so? I don't know if you've experienced that at all or you've seen that, but 100 man and I think that's like, um, that's just doing.
47:05 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
I would say intuition is key there. Um, and it's funny, I drive from Tampa to clear water all the time and the Courtney Campbell is the bridge. And it's like I Google bridge names and it's like, right, do you want to be the guy that's named or gal that's named after a bridge? And why of that impact? Like nobody talks about when it got renamed or what it is, and I think that's a really great analogy. You know, on being intentional about what you do, the earlier in life you can do it, the quicker you can do it, the better off. I think that you'll be.
47:35
And, right to no surprise, whoever clicked on this today and stuck with us for 40 minutes and it's like, okay, I hope that 10 minutes. They tell us how to go make a bunch of money. But it's just like it's those things. It's compressed, that like I is. They tell us how to go make a bunch of money, but it's just like it's those things. It's compressed that like I'm 38 now and it's like how do you do it by 30? How do you do it when you start your life, like that, at 25 or 21, or you're planning out a high school and how do you do those things?
47:54
It's, it's, it's there's value in, in mentorship and previous experiences, right Like every coaching book, every business book. Like Rockefeller, had all of the principles. Now it's rebranded, repackaged, redone. There's not much that hasn't existed in the past couple of hundred years of us or the thousands of years of the world, and it's just like I think the quicker you can build your puzzle of what's you want your life to look like, the quicker you can start to get to the outcome that you desire. So, yeah, there's no, no easy way and no secret sauce there.
48:34 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, the other thing I think you hit on that I think really kind of punctuates your retail experience and opening these stores is like it's the whole my favorite way of explaining this is like someone who's played a musical instrument for 20 years, but they've all been 20 years of playing the same year, the first year, and then you have someone who's actually played and, you know, compounded all that those previous times to grow and I think we can discount a shortness of time because it's not quote long enough but they were such good quality years that it leapfrogs you in such a way that, yeah, maybe there is someone out there twice as old as you or ten years old or whatever it is, but you know the quality of experience is different. So, you know, I think people can focus on that making like just as good of quality of experience as possible and for themselves and, and like you mentioned, for the relationships. Doing that for other people is huge. Um, not shutting them down, giving them room to grow?
49:35 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, I love that Um and that's a boast uh, I would say an attractor and a detractor. And once you have that awareness you just described, you make different decisions. When it comes to that. Again, that's just the path. And said I've been doing this for 19 years Doesn't mean it.
49:53
It's like, have you been in business 19 times for a year, or did you accumulate 19 years of knowledge and you could help me? And then how do you do that? And sometimes that's just to the people you're around. It's the easiest way to learn. You know, it's amazing In 2025, we've got AI and the internet and all these things that you can learn quick. So it's like you don't need that Um. So I think the negative there is people can create fear amongst people that they can't. I think the evolution changes so quick now that anybody that's in business I think that's one of the biggest vulnerabilities is how quick people can actually compress that timeline of becoming an expert in a field. So it's like man, if you got an idea, go, get after it and capitalize on that thing and do just what you said Become a master in as quick of a time as you can.
50:42 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Yeah, so what's next for you, ben Mont? Like? What's your outlook? What are you headed towards?
50:49 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah. So 2025 for me, still involved in the transactional side of things, I'll say on the deal side, but as we just spent 45 minutes talking about relationships and people, it's I love this, like you know, spending time with you today, like I bet you, you and I could come up with something that we could do together at the end of this thing, and that's what I want Now. We designed a community, um that started as a sales coaching community, now um. We have a company called ramp and um that basically, we built that for non entrepreneurs, non visionaries come hang out if you want, but it's for the people doing the work. So, lead managers, inside sales dispositions, acquisition managers we gave them a very comprehensive home um, with a lot of support, where we took and systematized how we succeeded to get to 400 and some deals a year. We said, hey, here's the framework. Um.
51:40
Again, not being great at sales myself, I firmly believe that, especially in 2025, the way to win is is closing. I mean it is. It is literally acquiring and closing properties, whether that's to contract a wholesale or whatever you do, but controlling the inventory is key this year. So we spent two years building out this community. We launched it this past June or July and it's a group coaching community. We love that. We also offered a one-on-one coaching style community and then we have like an intensive partnership program where pitch me an idea man, tell me how we can work together, tell me how big it is, tell me why we should do it, and I focus a lot on that aspect of things. So I've transitioned.
52:22
Sometimes I use the analogy you know B2B more so than you know B2C on the seller side, but just leaning into those lasting relationships is where you know I want to spend my time in the space that. Ultimately, I would love to see it become kind of the go-to resource for sales coaching from a systematized perspective. It's like ops and sales is oil and water. We nanoparticle those things together inside our organization for five to six years now and we found that that's how you grow. I mean it's like you don't fight and just say they never get along. It's like you create synergies between those two and you want to see your, your business, start to make some incremental changes and growth. It's through that phase. So I just want to share that with anybody interested, in whatever tier or level that falls into, and celebrate success along the way.
53:15 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Where can people find more information on this program? Where can people find?
53:18 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
more information on this program. I think the best thing that people can do. Again. The program is called Ramp. It's the on-ramp to sales If you're new. It's to ramp up your business if you're in it.
53:27
But go to rampreicom and we do a seven-day free trial. Would love to do it longer. We built it on Hermosi's platform. That's all he gave me. So blame him, not me. But you can literally come in and you can. It's a one click subscribe, one click unsubscribe.
53:43
But come hang out. If you join for seven days, we run two calls within that time period. Sometimes you can catch three during your free trial. But just come see, come make an impact on the community. Come ask the burning question. If you said, if any credibility, not to me, but there's 320 active members inside of there. There's a lot of deal flow that happens right. There's eight figures or greater of investment style transactions that are reoccurring inside of that community. And come hang out, ask the question. If you're afraid and you want it to be a place to come, do it. Do it. If you want to DM me once you get in there, because that's the easiest place to get ahold of me, do it Right.
54:18
Whatever is helpful for somebody that's stuck today, whether that's one people or a thousand, might take me longer to get responses to. But come hang out. That's direct access to, to get on the field with the team and I think the best way to go experience it. We've got 75 modules of content. You could search in there and find something if you want whatever, wherever you're hung up. Like you know, for me a win would be getting over that belief system or that barrier that somebody at home is currently stuck in that wishes their life look different from 25. We miss January. Don't let February go by. Man, take action. I'm glad to help if I can cool.
54:52 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Well, I think you know, uh, especially if people have stuck around this long or maybe they're listening to it in a short but just knowing you know your approach. You know this isn't just like I slapped together, of course, because that was the thing to do. You know, like you're obviously, you know, very passionate about the people side of it, which is huge. Um, because that can mean a huge, the big difference between just something that exists as a default for the business versus you're going to go really learn stuff in there and I know people are going to get in your community and really learn.
55:28 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, we're very collaborative. Like I said, if you want to go consume content somewhere, YouTube is a great place to do it. If you want to come get engaged we role play in there. People have to participate. Want to come get engaged? Um, we, we role play in there. People have to participate.
55:42
Um, so, right, like we've removed community members for just sitting there and being a sucker on the energy of the community. Like it's a. It's a, it's a community where we want people to better themselves and whatever aspect that is. Um, so I'm just a big believer in everybody you know contributing and that's how you get the reps in we build it and plug our organization's all sales positions into it. And then we just got sick of people asking how they got to be a part of it. So we're like, okay, cool, we'll, we'll turn it on for the outside world.
56:07
And we're not gurus, man, we're like I've never done this before. I've been developing it and doing it for a couple of years, but it's through. You know, we've closed 1,000 innovations and there's a lot of proof of concept in there and there's a lot of blown up deals and a lot of marketing dollars spent to refine it and to get there and all we're doing is sharing the successes of that of other people and putting in a trustworthy environment. Like you said, passion is my number one driver for this project, once I got to a place where I could pick what I wanted to do. Yeah, awesome.
56:42 - Preston Zeller (Host)
Well, Benmont, I really appreciate you joining today. It's been such a good conversation. Anywhere else people can find you that you want other than Ramp.
56:53 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
Yeah, I mean Instagram's cool. My name's in the bottom left down there. There's not many BenMont's running around, so pretty easy target to find online. It's not the one that was in Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, so that's the only other guy you might stumble across named Benmont. So that's cool. Just search for me on there and connect, reach out, love, cultivating relationships. So just want to meet some cool people. Thank you for hanging out, spending an hour together today at a really insightful conversation, and thanks for noticing I'm still doing what I started doing 20 years ago. With the expansion, I might dig into that idea a little bit deeper.
57:25
Thanks, man, good call.
57:30 - Hope (Announcement)
Thanks for listening to today's podcast.
57:36 - Benmont Locker (Guest)
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